Island County Commissioner Helen Price Johnson and Coupeville Mayor Nancy Conard are holding a Community Forum to discuss the “Distress” caused by the Coupeville OLF

Author:Cliff Howard

Island County Commissioner Helen Price Johnson and Coupeville Mayor Nancy Conard are holding a Community Forum to discuss the “Distress” and the “Level of Impact” caused by the Naval Outlying Field in Coupeville.

Therse 2 local politicians are holding a community meeting at the Coupeville Rec Hall, Wednesday June 19, 5:30 p.m. – 7:00 p.m.

They state: “By increasing the dialogue we can come together to reduce the negative impacts of base operations on our community.”

Again we see some of our local politicians feeding the flames of certain special interest groups on the Island that want to see the Coupeville NOLF severely restricted or removed from the Island entirely. Apparently Commissioner Helen Price Johnson and the Mayor of Coupeville Nancy Conard feel that giving a voice to the people who have been using lies and half truths in their campaign against the OLF is a better way to go than supplying the citizens with the facts about the OLF  and current property disclosure information and zoning we currently have in place to stop encroachment on these facilities.

Both of the politicians that are holding this community forum have in the past turned a blind eye to encroachment issues by allowing incompatible developments in the noise zones and now they are giving a voice to those who oppose the OLF because of that noise and encroachment. Instead of fighting to lower the “level of impact” of the OLF by following the laws and zoning we currently have in place they are attempting to restrict the use of the OLF because of the problems that in many cases they themselves have caused.

These 2 politicians are no friend of the Naval community on our Island or they would be supplying the public with the facts surrounding the NOLF and standing for reducing encroachment on the OLF instead of allowing encroachment and then allowing the encroachers a voice and a public forum to complain.

REMEMBER:

Coupeville Rec Hall
Wednesday June 19
5:30 p.m. – 7:00 p.m.

 

 

 

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85 comments

  1. avatar

    My bet is that ex-commissioner Homalone is behind the curtains stiring the pot for this meeting and she and her followers will be front row center June 19, loudly voicing their “Close OLF” chants and giving press interviews featuring their faces to the lib rags

    1. avatar

      Don’t kid yourself. Helen Price Johnson is just as bad as Angie was for supporting these special interest groups and giving them a seat at the table. 50,000 people living on the Island have more pressing issues than the small minority grumbling about a noise issue that 99% of them knew about and signed disclosures notifying them before they purchased their property.

      It is too bad we do not have County Commissioners and local politicians that make an effort to keep the military here with more than lip service.

      It makes one wonder where the supporters of the Navy are? It seems very popular for our local politicians to be members of organizations supporting the military on the Island but what do we see from it? We see their names in the papers and how they are members of the navy league and the claims that they all support the military but what have they actually done in support of the military?

      Our county Commissioners have been silent on the issue, so have our local (Oak Harbor) politicians. The Chamber of Commerce? Not a word. The navy league the grand supporters of the military here on the Island? Not a word. Special interest groups are controlling this conversation and they are doing so this time with the support of one of our County Commissioners and the Mayor of one of our Islands cities. Not one of the organizations that claim to support the military and their mission here have spoken one word on this issue. No facts have been presented, no studies on the actual noise levels have been made available to the public in fact nothing has been presented to the people in opposition to the claims of this special interest group. This is a shocking display of apathy by our local political class…

      We do now have an upcoming “Community Forum” to discuss the “Distress” and “Level of Impact” of the military here. We don’t have any publically available facts or other information to clarify the claims made but were going to hold a forum and “increase the dialog” between the complainers and the military anyway…

      1. avatar

        Great points.

        I think this posting of the real, genuine Ken Pickard agenda should wake everybody the hell up like three cups of black coffee: http://www.scribd.com/doc/140499652/Ken-Pickard-Commentary-the-whole-thread

        1. avatar

          Yes…I just love when the anti OLF folks tell us that they have no intention of wanting to close NAS Whidbey and then we see their grand poobah make comments like the following:

          Ken Pickard states:

          “Close the base”
          “The NAS Base keeps the Island dysfunctional.”
          “The invasion of our lives by the pig jets is intolerable and a health hazard.”

          Enough said about their intentions…

      2. avatar

        Believe we have over 60,000 people living on Whidbey Island, not just 50,000.

        In HPJ’s world, she only knows 300 people.

      3. avatar

        Report the community forum to the State Auditor. They may not have as much teeth as the public thinks, but they must respond to complaints. When elected officials band together to “increase the dialog”, they had better do so legally.

        1. avatar

          I do not mean the state auditor folks will respond directly to “you”. And remember, there is strength in coherency and numbers.

          1. avatar

            I have filed a few complaints with the State Auditor and believe it or not they do respond directly to the complaintant. I was a bit more than surprised that I even heard back from them…

            1. avatar

              I contacted the State Auditor’s office regarding the Freeland Water and Sewer District use of public funds. We got a comprehensive audit with all the issues addressed. Needless to say, they issued a report that found major fault with the FWSD.

              I even got a “Thank you” note from them at the end of the audit.

              As far as I’m concerned, the State Auditor’s office rocks!

              1. avatar

                Can you share the report? We can publish it here for you if your interested.

        2. avatar

          I have a better idea.

          Let’s turn this forum into a “community confrontation”.

          a) It’ll scare off most of the lefties who don’t want to be challenged.
          b) Read this:

          ———————————-
          Dear Editor;

          On 19 June 2013 at 1730 Hours at the Coupeville Rec Hall, Commish Helen Price-Johnson has called for a community confrontation to discuss the national need for OLF Coupeville and the equally important moral need to mitigate the OLF’s impacts. Watching the Island County Commissioners’ video recordings, I know our Congressional delegation will have staffers attend.

          Angrily, there are individuals like Ken Pickard, who leads an anti-OLF caucus of diverse individuals, who has said the Navy is “the biggest bully in the world”, “close the base” and “the NAS Base keeps the Island dysfunctional”. These statements are archived on a Scribd website for those in denial.

          Hopefully those whom support our troops will attend Commish Price-Johnson’s community confrontation on this national defense issue. We should testify the patriotic majority supports our troops, support OLF Coupeville unless a cost-effective alternative truly exists, and supports cost-effective mitigation of the OLF’s impacts whether that be sound-proofing or eminent domain.

          The event is on 19 June, Coupeville Rec Hall, 5:30 PM. Please bring your video cameras in the spirit of Andrew Breitbart.
          ———————————-

          Believe me when I’m saying this: I. Have. A. Plan.

          1) Calling it a confrontation is going to scare the heck off of the progressive left. Plus one great patriot is going to stand up to Kenny Boy and tell Kenny exactly what he thinks of that “close the base” talk, how heavenly EA-18Gs are and really give an airshow.

          2) Making sure to frame this issue as a matter of cost-effectiveness is going to make the spendthrift left STFU.

          3) This is gonna be a confrontation – keep on saying that, it scares the Progs – where at some point I am going to call Ken Prickard out on his Beyond Stupid lies. Barring any last-minute surprises on my end.

          c) I’m hoping lots and lots of patriots bring their video cameras. This is going to be epic…………..

    2. avatar

      I was there. So were the chanters. They organized outside the meeting where others were turned away by the organizers.

  2. avatar

    I am pissed off.

    First, no OLF for next week. Damn, a win for the bullies.

    Second, then I read the agitators sure don’t feel like they’re being heard. Yeah right, it’s all we hear is whine, cry and moan about the sound of freedom. Get off the island if it’s that bad.

    Third, when are we going to start getting our troops’ back? When?

  3. avatar

    Noise is not the problem. Pollution is not the problem. Anti-America, anti-American Moon Bats are the problem. Their opinions are polluted with anti-America hate. They voice lies, demands, noisy threats and nasty judgements against responsible appreciative citizens who base their opinions on facts and logic. Though I expect this “forum” will be crawling with Moon Bats, I’ve marked the date on my calendar to witness another old hippie spectacle.

    1. avatar

      I am a little more than troubled to see one of our commissioners feeding the frenzy of this special interest group. Instead of reiterating the many factual studies performed concerning the noise issues and the importance and history of the NAS and OLF this commissioner and mayor are holding a community forum to discuss the “Distress” caused by something we as a society and a county have already accepted, already have been informed about and zoning and land use laws have already been created to address.

      They want to reopen the door so to speak over the whole issue. This is the same county commissioner that helped to overturn the planning department decision and hearing examiner decision that rejected one of the loudest voices against the OLF’s plan to build a Arts and Events Center on farmland in the noise zone. Without the commissioners approving the Crocket Barn, an Arts and Events Center, over the rejection by planning and a hearing examiner we would not have issues like this crop up.

      This behavior by our commissioner is unacceptable. This proves that our previous commissioners and current commissioner Helen Johnson has done everything they could to undermine the Navy in their mission here on the Island.

      You speak of “Moon Bats”? We have a moon bat as one of our commissioners. She has and will do everything she can to undermine the US Navy on Whidbey Island, just look at the facts and her past decisions and you need no more proof.

      1. avatar

        “Instead of reiterating the many factual studies performed concerning the noise issues and the importance and history of the NAS and OLF this commissioner and mayor are holding a community forum to discuss the “Distress” caused by something we as a society and a county have already accepted, already have been informed about and zoning and land use laws have already been created to address.”

        So we’ll reiterate that in one week.

        This will be a confrontation for the ages.

  4. avatar

    Gee, maybe some local politicians who are claimed supporters of the local Navy community in the north end of the island should follow the lead of local politicians Conard and Price-Johnson and sponsor a “a Community Forum to discuss the “Distress” and the “Level of Impact” caused by” Ault Field?

    Would not such an event, held just a little further north, also function “to reduce the negative impacts of base operations on our community”?

    After all, there are many, many more flights coming and going from Ault Field, which are always also practicing touch-and-go’s on an ONGOING basis, plus the Navy schedules both day-and-night FCLPs at Ault Field!

    Oh, my gosh! Now, that I’ve thought of it….

    Why has not Oak Harbor Mayor Scott Dudley called for such an event in Oak Harbor?

    Why has not Island County Commissioner Kelly Emerson called for such an event on the north end of Whidbey Island?

    Why has not Island County Commissioner Jill Johnson called for such an event near the north end Whidbey Island?

    After all, there surely are perennial noise-complainers in Oak Harbor and both “on” and “near” the north end of the island, too!!

    When the Navy recently agreed to renew the publishing of the planned use times of NOLF Coupeville, some people claimed that it would somehow be a positive thing to do so.

    Contrarily, I predicted that all it would actually accomplish was to cause these noise-complainers to come up with something else to complain about (like they used to do previously whenever the Navy deviated even one iota from the “published” FCLP schedule).

    This meeting will help these noise-complainer folks coalesce around the themes for “something else to complain about”.

    Local politicians Nancy Conard and Helen Price-Johnson are only TOO happy to help them do so.

    1. avatar

      The only good that has come from those schedules is some relationship-building.

      Most of that between aviation photographers and their cameras.

      We love the schedules.

    2. avatar

      I’m also thinking a pro-NASWI rally is necessary.

      Perhaps at the same time the anti-NASWI rally is.

      Word is leaking that Ken Pickard announced this morning “our NEPA Lawsuit against the Navy is ready for filing in the next week or so”.

      E-mails are flying around. Stay tuned.

  5. avatar

    HPJ is a diaper doper baby..She needs to go..the sooner she leaves the Island the better off we will all be.Their progressive ideas are like a cancer on society.

    1. avatar

      A diaper doper baby??

      HPJ won’t leave the island. She was actually born here.

      The problem isn’t weather she leaves the island, it is her political actions.

  6. avatar

    I second Joe’s suggestion. Moon Bats do not deserve our attention, but the Navy does! Currently I participate in a support the troops rally near the Fort Lewis main gate once a month. A Tea Party group supports the Bangor-Bremerton Sailors with flags and signs expressing appreciation and support. Flag line rallies at the two gates or at the Sea Plane base monthly would be a beautiful opportunity to show our respect and appreciation to Navy personnel and their families and will not go un-noticed by the commanders. Kelly, Jill and Scott have pressing official responsibilities at other levels on behalf of county citizens, and we should not expect them to do things we’re capable of, and far more effective doing. Someone in the Oak Harbor area organize, and I will be there.

    1. avatar

      I think for safety’s and sanity’s sake our first rally should be at the exact same time in Oak Harbor as these jerks are holding their whine session.

      I bet we’ll outnumber them.

      1. avatar

        In other words, your alternative suggestion is to stay away from the Coupeville Rec Hall on Wednesday June 19 between 5:30 p.m. – 7:00 p.m “for safety’s and sanity’s sake”?

        Why does this not surprise me?

        1. avatar

          No Plan A should be a rally in Oak Harbor

          Plan B should be a civil counterprotest in Coupeville

          Plan C should be to crap out and quit.

          I’m not going to be running around trying to muzzle people since we’ve tried the non-confrontational approach. It failed. Let’s get back to what works because when we stand up to the Left, they wilt.

          When we stand up to the Left and ask tough questions, they run away. Whether it’s schools or whether Glenn Back is a racist or whether Andrew Breitbart is a liar or if Ken Pickard wants to close NAS Whidbey… they cower.

          Time to make them cower again. We beat them just last year with 129 comments pro-Navy versus a lesser number against. We can do this again. Soon, if the rumors are true, we will have to.

          1. avatar

            Plan A-Z should be to confront them anywhere, anytime or anyplace and to do with logic and facts. No whining, no crying and no bellyaching just the plain simple facts. No quarter needs or deserves to be given.

            Facts always have a way of making liars and fabulists scurry back under the comfort of the dark silence of ignorance where they deserve to live and hide.

            1. avatar

              Yup, Coupeville is full of a surplus of fabulists.

              1. avatar

                Coupeville residents are the only people who really have the right to comment on what happens in their airspace.

                1. avatar

                  Really? Only Coupeville residents? Is that people who only live in the city limits of Coupeville? How about those that live just outside Coupeville? What about Admirals Cove? Do you want to exclude them from your meeting also? Or do you want only to exclude people that may not agree with you?

                  You only want a select group of people to show up I see.

                  BTW…it is NOT Coupevilles airspace. It is everyones airspace but I hardly think you understand the difference.

                  You people really do think your something special don’t you?

                  1. avatar

                    Coupeville…in general…the people who are directly affected by the noise. The field is referred to as the Coupeville OLF even though it is out of the city limits.

                    The way I had this explained to me (by a U.S. Census employee) is that Coupeville is comprised of anyone who receives their mail from the Coupeville Post Office…98239 types.

                    I thought the more the merrier. The only way to have a meaningful discourse is if you hear all sides. It’s not a debate if the other team doesn’t show up.

                    1. avatar

                      I do not believe it was designed to be a debate. It was designed to give the OLF folks a voice. A one sided voice.

                      I find it rather interesting that Helen Johnson is the person who was instrumental in putting this together after all the times she voted to encroach on the OLF as a Commissioner.

                      It is clear where she stands on the issue, never listen to what a politician says, always look at their actions instead to tell their true color.

                    2. avatar

                      It was Helen Price-Johnson who came to the window to see what Joe was doing there with his camera!
                      HPJ will stoop to anything and everything if it will salvage her dismal Political career
                      Rufus Rose and several others were there BUT were NOT permitted to enter because they (HPJ. CONRAD?) were only allowing people with specific ZIP codes attend

  7. avatar

    “…… safety’s and and sanity’s sake ……” What you you mean Joe? Navy supporters need to support the Navy’s presence on Whidbey standing tall, front and center, smiling, cheering, shaking hands and visible to all the good guys. Night rallies rarely produce an effect worth the trouble. Fact is: there is a certain number of Moon Bats and we ain’t going to change them, been tried, can’t be done. They’re so instilled they even have their own queens; I’ve seen ‘em! We don’t need to defend the Navy. It defends us. What we do need to do is support the sailors. Seems to me like a good mission for The Navy League.

    1. avatar

      “…there is a certain number of Moon Bats and we ain’t going to change them….”

      I have learned a new word:

      Moonbat

      Thanks!

    2. avatar

      And where is the Navy League? With the exception of Growler Joe it seems their members only appear when there is an opportunity to have their publicity photos taken. Otherwise you never hear a word from them…

      1. avatar

        Good point.

        If the left wants to push this issue, okay. We tried a plan of nonconfrontation, and we saw the moonbats run wild in the Whidbey News-Times and get a blog where they don’t allow comments. When We the People finally jumped in their stuff, the enemy started to back down.

        We know what works and doesn’t now. We also know Ken “close the base” Pickard wants NAS Whidbey Island blamed for every single problem on Whidbey Island known to Humanity.

        Andrew Breitbart needs to be here. Now. If what I’m hearing is true, we are going to have to be as courageous and truth-seeking as Breitbart was.

        1. avatar

          “We tried a plan of nonconfrontation,”

          “We know what works”

          Who is “we”?

          For whom do you portend to speak when you say “we”?

          I don’t recall ever suggesting any kind of “plan of nonconfrontation”, so don’t include me in whatever “we” you now think you speak for on here.

          1. avatar

            We #1 = OHNL

            We #2 = We the People who’ve had enough of the several hundred agitating ingrates who want to win the lottery

            Duly noted BillB. Bad habit of mine using pronouns.

            1. avatar

              Oh, then I suppose I can expect to see, hear and read about the Oak Harbor Navy League leadership officially publicizing and organizing “a rally in Oak Harbor”, i.e. a “pro-NASWI” rally “at the exact same time in Oak Harbor as these jerks are holding their whine session”.

              Since you speak for them….

              1. avatar

                Well I would hope so but the OHNL spokesperson is way above my paygrade.

                I was just explaining my lazy use of the world we.

                1. avatar

                  “the OHNL spokesperson is way above my paygrade”

                  The OHNL main spokesperson is a local politician who, as the former mayor of Oak Harbor, was chastised by the WA State Attorney General for his non-compliance with the Open Public Meeting Act. Additionally, his “hurry-up-and-get-it-done antics”, which purposely ignored official state warnings about tribal archeology sites within the Pioneer Way street project, eventually led to the City of Oak Harbor being sued by the tribes. He also swiped a campaign sign from a Pioneer Way merchant’s storefront.

                  1. avatar

                    Yes, he’s a dweeb and a moron.

                    So Joe, don’t spend your coffee money wooing him or listing to him. Mr. Slow-wit is non effective.

                    1. avatar

                      Correct Mike. “Slow-wit” is using his OHNL position, and his impressive Vice-President of a shill bank that offered him the position and every other action he takes to not make waves and be a big shot in the public’s eyes.
                      He is trying to build a voter support base so he can re-enter politics at least replacing OH Mayor Dudley.
                      Unfortunately he suffers from NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) which is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet….and that includes the voters who put him in office

  8. avatar

    Interesting how the WNT, Examiner, & S. Whidbey Times have not published this letter on line. Having it in the “Green & Print editions only should help suppress the pro OLF turnout. Probably no one from the north end will know of the meeting. This will allow HPJ to say the MAJORITY of the attendees want it moved or closed, like the email support she had for the clean water utility. Then use this a ” Public Support” for closing the OLF.

    1. avatar

      John,

      That is my fear is well is the pro-NASWI voices are being suppressed. Some in the Navy and in the general community think it’s best not to have an opposing voice so this dies down, my response at this conjecture is:

      a) Ken Prickard is taking NASWI to court
      b) If Prickard wins, then a full EIS is going to be done – that’s what Picard and Spina have testified to the media they want.
      c) When the full EIS is done, if we pro-NASWI voices don’t Growl like there’s no tomorrow… NASWI could be at serious risk and the OLF + the dependent EW wing will be gone.

      I think I need to get back into the fight. As if I ever left…

      1. avatar

        Growler Joe’s hypothesis that “full EIS = OLF + the dependent EW wing will be gone” prediction is totally unreal and is a completely over-the-top assertion.

        If others in position of power and authority disagree with me (and therefore believe Growler Joe), then ignore me, and I expect that such folks will then also speak up and speak out unambiguously in on the matter in the near future.

        Frankly, however, it seems most of those folks in positions of power and authority must agree completely with me, since they are all stone-dead silent – except for the likes of Nancy Conard and Helen Price-Johnson, who would be all too-happy to see OLF + the dependent EW wing” gone from this island.

        1. avatar

          No, close.

          Full EIS + silence from the pro-NASWI EW Wing from scoping to general comments = OLF + the dependent EW wing will be gone

          Remember, I said, “if we pro-NASWI voices don’t Growl like there’s no tomorrow… “

          1. avatar

            Guess what, Joe?

            I actually can read.

            Your assertion is totally unreal and is completely over-the-top, whether local people make noise, or not, for or against the EA-18G noise at the OLF.

            Q: How long have the folks living in / near NAS Oceana had FA/18s (both the smaller “lawn dart” variety AND the much-larger Super-Hornet variety) literally flying IN THE PATTERN over neighborhoods and a major shopping mall, all hours of the day and night?

            Answer: decades.

            NAS Whidbey is not going to lose an EW wing any more than the FA-18s are leaving NAS Oceana or NAS Lemoore.

            These folks in Central Whidbey are spitting into the wind.

            They just don’t know it, or they just don’t want to believe it.

            They erroneously believe they are entitled to some sort of “super special” consideration and treatment from the Federal Government, just because they are a bunch of tree-hugging hippies, or “moon bats”.

            Conard and Price-Johnson are playing to the crowd, but they are not actually going to DO anything for these folks.

            In fact, I am SO sure of that, that if any of the “moon bats” are reading this, I challenge you: challenge Conard and Price-Johnson to DELINEATE for you some actual ACTION they will ACTUALLY take along a vector for your “cause” against the aircraft noise at the OLF.

            “Lip service” is ALL you are going to get!

            Prove me wrong, if you can, “moon bats”.

            1. avatar

              Damn, I love your comments!

              “These folks in Central Whidbey are spitting into the wind. ”

              I just hope you’re right.

          2. avatar

            I do believe the facts concerning noise levels are on the Navy’s side. Where it gets sticky is for those areas where we have allowed encroachment to occur like Crocket Barn and the new Transit Center and Interpretive Center for Ebey Prarie.

            Sooner or later allowing these developments in the noise zone is going to bite us in the ass just because we now have so many of them.

            One Paula Spina and Crocket Barn at a time is all it takes to eventually have the OLF area full of people complaining.

            You can thank our Island County Commissioners(mostly past) for a lot the issues and even now our current commissioners are pretty much silent on the issue.

            1. avatar

              “Where it gets sticky is…Crocket Barn”

              Spend Island County “conservation futures” dollars to buy the “Crocket Barn” from Paula Spina, put up a berm or backstop inside the barn, and turn it into an Island County indoor shooting range.

              I am deadly serious. Any local politicians have the guts to take this suggestion for action, or are all of you cowards?

              “Where it gets sticky is…the new Transit Center”

              Island Transit took tens of millions of Federal dollars to build that facility where it sits. The DoD’s OLF Coupeville was there first. Everyone knew that. End of argument between sibling Federal agencies.

              “Where it gets sticky is… the…Interpretive Center for Ebey Prarie.”

              The entire Ebey Prarie concept is another federal money-funded concept that came AFTER the DoD and the OLF. Everyone knew that. End of argument between sibling Federal agencies.

              1. avatar

                Absolute agreement here. The OLF has priority due to being there in September 1943: http://www.scribd.com/doc/121665372/AICUZ-Study-Update-for-Naval-Air-Station-Whidbey-Island%E2%80%99s-Ault-Field-and-Outlying-Landing-Field-Coupeville-Washington-Final-Submission-March-2005#page=18

                Not to mention the cost of a new OLF is rumored to be at least $500 million to a Billion. If there’s a new EIS, we’ll get a hard number.

              2. avatar

                Crocket Barn was there first.

                1. avatar

                  Yes…..but Crocket Barn was just a barn, with a farm surrounding it. Just like a lot of our local land, perfectly suited to be in a noise zone until someone moved in and changed it from a farm and a barn.

                  Now it is an event center in the noise zone. Their permit was denied by planning because of this, and denied by the hearing examiner only to be overturned by Helen Price Johnson and Angie Homola…

                  And according to the owners own words the farm was bought sight unseen…

                  So while Crocket Barn MAY have been there first it is not the same Crocket Barn that we have now.

                  1. avatar

                    True, true. I was over-generalizing.

    2. avatar

      “Interesting how the WNT, Examiner, & S. Whidbey Times have not published this letter on line. ”

      My observation about the local mainstream media is that they travel along a vector as to which items they choose to give the most exposure on-line (i.e. “when” they place something online – sooner or later after the print edition hits the street).

      Anything that is generally potentially politically controversial, especially if that controversy may be generated by the “right”, or would rally “the right” is generally the LAST thing that that they will place on-line.

  9. avatar

    Well, considering that the Navy has changed its flight path from the published one which was included in the paperwork I have for *my* house (that’s the same for 100′s of people), I would say that most of us have the right to complain. I *used* to live in a 70-75 dB area, now I am magically in a +100 dB area.

    re: http://www.flickr.com/photos/96202857@N07/8803698950/

    1. avatar

      Your link is worthless as it requires a login to view. I would suggest making it public so others can view.

      The Navy may have changed it’s flight path but the disclosure agreement that you signed when purchasing your property has not. There is no denotation of any specific noise zone for any specific property in the disclosure. Did you understand the following when you purchased your land and signed the disclosure agreement?

      “Property in the vicinity of Ault Field and OLF Coupeville will routinely experience significant jet aircraft noise. As a result airport noise zones have been identified in the immediate area of Ault Field and OLF Coupeville. Jet aircraft noise is not, however, confined to the boundaries of these zones.
      Additionally, the noise generated by the single flyover of a military jet may exceed the average noise level depicted by the airport noise zones and may exceed 100 (one-hundred) dba.

      Island County Code 9.44.050:
      9.44.050 Disclosure Statement
      No person shall sell, lease, or offer for sale or lease any property within an Airport Environs Mapped Impacted Areas unless the prospective buyer or lessee has been given notice substantially as follows:

      TO: The property at ____________________ is located within Airport Environs mapped impacted area. There are currently 5 (five) active airport facilities in Island County. The Oak Harbor Airpark, the South Whidbey Airpark, and the Camano Airpark are general aviation facilities and are identified on the attached map. Ault Field and OLF Coupeville are tactical military jet aircraft facilities and are also identified on the attached map. Both Ault Field and OLF Coupeville are used for Field Carrier Landing Practice (FCLP) purposes. Practice sessions are routinely scheduled during day and night periods.
      Property in the vicinity of Ault Field and OLF Coupeville will routinely experience significant jet aircraft noise. As a result airport noise zones have been identified in the immediate area of Ault Field and OLF Coupeville. Jet aircraft noise is not, however, confined to the boundaries of these zones.
      Additionally, the noise generated by the single flyover of a military jet may exceed the average noise level depicted by the airport noise zones and may exceed 100 (one-hundred) dba.
      More specific information regarding airport operation and aircraft noise can be obtained by calling the Community Planning Liaison Office at NAS Whidbey Island and the Island County Planning and Community Development Department.

    2. avatar

      You paint your pictures with a very broad brush.

      First off, I have uploaded my referenced image to imgur (for all of those without Flickr accounts): http://i.imgur.com/1wenHVv.jpg

      Second, not all “Noise Disclosures” are created equal. If the disclosure was intended to be legally binding then better language would have been included in the “Seller Disclosure Statement” for “Improved Property” (assuming the buyer was purchasing an existing home). The disclosure for my home includes a statement for “Proximity to Farming”, but none for airport noise or airport proximity.

      Since I used a VA loan for my home, the document which I signed titled Noise Disclosure states the following:

      quote
      To: Veterans Administration
      Re: Property purchase located on Whidbey Island, Washington

      To whom it may concern:

      I am aware that the property I have proposed to purchase is located in an area adjacent to an airport.

      I am aware aircraft noise in this location is notable and may affect the livability, value and salability of the property.

      It is understood that a residence in a noise-sensitive area is, to some degree, considered unsuitable.

      I wish you to issue a Certificate of Reasonable Value establishing valuation; I am willing to incur the expense of the appraisal.
      unquote

      This is for Whidbey Island, not just the areas around airports.

      Note that no decibel levels are stated. It does not state that I accept anything which was written in the ICC. That information was not included in the purchase of my home. Forgive me for not reading all laws, codes, and revised codes before purchasing my home…not everyone does. I do note that ICC states as you pointed out: “No person shall sell, lease, or offer for sale or lease any property within an Airport Environs Mapped Impacted Areas unless the prospective buyer or lessee has been given notice substantially as follows:” It does not state that the purchaser must agree to those facts. That ICC wouldn’t change much beyond allowing people to make an informed decision. It doesn’t state the homeowner’s cannot try to change the accepted norm. That is what some of us are trying to do. It is well within our rights to do so.

      Furthermore, the information I did receive from my realtor used Island County’s own map showing decibel levels for the areas around the OLF. No 100 dB areas are indicated, so the information available is inconsistent. I reviewed a good portion of Island County’s web site regarding the AICUZ before purchasing my home. My home’s location was, and still is, in the area indicated as a 70-75dB area which is nowhere near 100 dB, nor the adjacent 75+ dB areas indicated on the county’s map (see link).

      You may be able to see my frustration without jumping all over the patriotic bandwagon about it. Patriotism at this point is rhetoric…not essential to the argument. However, as I have said before, I have served my country for over 26 years. I make that point due to claims by certain individuals who love pointing out how un-patriotic people are who happen to dislike the extreme levels of noise created by the growlers over their homes. I have taken the oath to support and defend this country. I want to see this country and her military follow the rules (and guidelines) which they themselves established.

      1. avatar

        You signed a document and purchased a home knowing the following:

        1- I am aware that the property I have proposed to purchase is located in an area adjacent to an airport.

        2- I am aware aircraft noise in this location is notable and may affect the livability, value and salability of the property.

        3- It is understood that a residence in a noise-sensitive area is, to some degree, considered unsuitable.

        Then you state: “It does not state that I accept anything which was written in the ICC.”

        But you did accept the fact, in writing, that the home you purchased was in a “noise-sensitive area is, to some degree, considered unsuitable and that noise may affect the livability, value and salability of the property.”?

        “I do note that ICC states as you pointed out: “No person shall sell, lease, or offer for sale or lease any property within an Airport Environs Mapped Impacted Areas unless the prospective buyer or lessee has been given notice substantially as follows:” It does not state that the purchaser must agree to those facts.”

        You agreed to those facts when you purchased your home, you knew it and you had a choice, in fact you apparently signed a letter speaking to those facts to your loan organization.

        “You may be able to see my frustration”

        I can certainly see that you are frustrated but the question is whether or not your frustration is misdirected. If I understand the circumstance described above it seems that you were well aware of buying a home in an area that some may consider unliveable and now you do not like the noise.
        I would think that you would be frustrated at yourself and considering the circumstances described above and would understand that your attempt to fight against this looks rather poor.

        You have to understand the communities frustration with people like yourself…It has nothing to do with the fact whether you are patriotic or not.

        1. avatar

          We’ll have to agree to disagree on the interpretation of the ICC.

          I don’t feel my frustration is misdirected, just ignored outright. If all of Whidbey Island, i.e., downtown Oak Harbor, Langley, Clinton, and all of the communities in between had to suffer the same as those individuals who lived in the flight areas (indicated or otherwise by the county) then I suspect that a different tune would be sung.

          The Noise Disclosure I signed says Whidbey Island, yet the growlers are much more selective than that.

          Also, the ICC does not delineate the areas bounded for 100 dB noise levels. The Island County AICUZ does so for SPL’s up to 75+. The NAS Whidbey Instruction for noise abatement and OLF FCLP operations also has *different* information and maps.

          There just isn’t much consistency, and that inconsistency is what leads to much of the concern.

          As far as questioning someone’s patriotism and citizenship…ask Joe Kunzler what he thinks. I am sure he will be willing to share in all- caps.

          1. avatar

            But you have to understand that you are the only one responsible for your decisions. It really does not matter if the information you received you do not agree with. That is why it was called a disclosure, you had to disclose thet you were aware of the noise issue before you could opurchase your home.

            I also live in the noise zone, they fly right over my head on hot summer days when the windows are open, I chose to live here just as you chose to live where you do. I was notified and you were notified of the noise. You really have no legs to stand on here and again that is what is frustrating for us other citizens. Especially when we are not on your side of the arguement.

            Over 75db does mean over 75db I don’t know what could be more clear than that.

            I agree that there does need to be one place for citizens to go and find information about the noise zones, the information is scattered over the Counties website and even I have a hard time finding the information. That still is no excuse to fight when you were well aware of the noise issue.

            1. avatar

              You are blind to what I am writing. I agreed with the disclosure. I agreed to the AICUZ. I agreed with NASWHIDBEYINST 3710.1 Air Operations Manual. The problem is that the Navy is not following the rules that I agreed with.

              If the noise level were 200 dB, which is over 75 dB, would that be acceptable to you? How about 150 dB? How about 120, 100, 85? When the powers that be leave it so open ended it leaves a lot to be said in a legal environment. Stating 75dB+ on one map and stating 100 dB in another document not linked to the map…that’s ridiculous and misleading.

              The OLF Coupeville FCLP patterns on page I-8 of the NASWHIDBEYINST 3710.1S are not being followed. The instruction is not being followed. This is a major problem and the crux of the argument for a lot of people. The instruction is riddled with the “Noise Abatement Procedure” caveat. Yet, apparently, these noise abatement procedures are just words on paper. Instructions are made to be followed, and the Navy has seemed to have forgotten that.

              An EIS was waived as a prediction that the noise levels would be unacceptable to the citizens of Whidbey Island. That was also disingenuous.

              Scattered information is exactly why the legislative and legal systems need to be involved in this.

              1. avatar

                “The problem is that the Navy is not following the rules that I agreed with.”

                The rules you agreed with? There was no rule that you agreed with. You signed a disclosure statement not an agreement between you and the Navy. The disclosure statement that you signed stated:

                “I am aware aircraft noise in this location is notable and may affect the livability, value and salability of the property.”

                “It is understood that a residence in a noise-sensitive area is, to some degree, considered unsuitable.”

                There was no agreement between you and the Navy over the levels of noise beyond the fact that you bought in an area that is considered unliveable.

                You signed a clear and unequivocal disclosure statement that you were aware that your home may be in an unliveable area. You can cite every naval regulation in the world and it would not make a difference, the disclusure you signed tells you and us that you bought a home in an area considered by many to be unliveable. You agreed to it then and now you don’t.

                The larger question is how do we protect ourselves from people like yourself? Here we have a perfect example of someone signing a disclosure statement that was clear as anything and now you are using anything you can hang your hat on to try and prove that the Navy is wrong and not yourself.

                You tell us you have an agreement with the Navy. That is total fiction. You have no agreeement with the Navy or the County. What you have is a disclosure agreement stating that you were aware before you opurchased your home.

                “An EIS was waived as a prediction that the noise levels would be unacceptable to the citizens of Whidbey Island. That was also disingenuous.”

                The EIS was waived because there is very little difference in noise between the A-6 and the Growler. This has been proven in many studies performed on both aircraft. Disclosures are in place so that people are aware that the home they are purchasing is in an area considered to be unliveable. The degree of unlivable is a moot point, unliveable is unliveable. You purchased a home in one of these areas and now you want to backtrack on your disclosure, claim it is an agreement with the Navy and want a redo.

            2. avatar

              It may also help to know that easy street is about three miles further away from the interior noise zone than me. I have a much different perspective on what the noise level is.

              1. avatar

                Yes…the OLF is used once a week. NAS Whidbey is active 7 days a week. There are certainly differences. The EA-6B’s and the Growlers fly over my house roughly 7 days a week VS your 1 day a week.

                BUT…you in the Coupeville area are special. You do not have to follow the rules or accept the disclosure statement you signed like many others do. You have a phony “agreement” with the navy while we have a disclosure statement notifying us of the problem.

                This is why I am troubled by people like yourself. Facts mean very little, signed disclosures mean very little. Anything we can do as a society is ignored by people like yourself to get some personal gain or reprieve from your mistakes in life. You have allowed yourself to make a grave error in judgement in life and now you feel you can undo this mistake. I feel sorry for you.

                You are a classic example of why people like yourself need to be ignored. The “agreement” that you have with the Navy is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part…commonly known as a a fantasy.

                1. avatar

                  Well put Cliff.

                  I am all for cost-effective mitigation strategies as the noise impacts civilians and sailors alike.

                  However, this country cannot afford hundreds of millions of dollars on a new OLF because of some reserve.

                  1. avatar

                    I am not sure what mitigation strategies would help. The county already requires additional insulation in the noise areas and why would you need to mitigate something that people are notified thought disclosure and aware of? They have a choice when purchasing property in the noise areas, purchase the property and accept the reduced value and the noise or do not purchase the property.

                    To come in after the fact and commplain, after you have been notified of the noise issue through disclosure is really putting the cart after the horse. There is no mitigation that would be fair to the taxpayer who has to foot the bill for mitigation especially considering the fact that these people, like Robert, knew full well what they were doing when they purchased their home. In Roberts case he feels that he has some form of an agreement with the Navy and that the agreement has somehow been broken by the Navy when in fact he has signed a disclosure stating that he is buying property in an area that many would consider unliveable. I do not know what kind of mitigation would help someone who confuses a disclosure with an agreement. Any mitigation given would more than likely not be enough and the taxpayer would then be on the hook for the mitigation and anything else these people want in the future once they realize thay can game the disclosure they signed. The time to stop this nonsense is now. Not after millions have been spent on mitigation, I mean what is there to mitigate? The noise is there, they knew about it before they purchased and that is still not enough. There is no type of an agreement that will satisfy these people beyond buying them out and even then it will continue.

                    1. avatar

                      To be honest, I share those fears that these people just want to be bought out. Yet they say they don’t want to leave. It’s an interesting conversation.

                      I’m all for soundproofing, I’m all for increased notifications, I’m all for tight restrictions on weekend training, I’m demanding better communications from the Navy but the current Navy captain is media-shy; but at the end of the day until I see clear & convincing evidence to the contrary – not just one source supposedly sending an e-mail to Mayor Conrad – the United States of America needs OLF Coupeville/Coupeville NOLF. Full stop.

                      A new OLF is going to cost hundreds of millions to America. We don’t have the money, it’s not currently cost-effective.

                2. avatar

                  Once a week? Once a week? Get real. We already had an eight-straight-week stretch between March-April-May! How can you say something so dishonest?

                  We had three straight days of flights that started mid-morning around 0900 and went on-and-off until 0025, 0130, and 0020 during that time. We had two other back-to-back days of the same stretching until 2400.

                  People like me? A 26-year Navy Veteran who is still serving? I’d like to meet you on an even playing field, but I don’t think most of y’all would pass muster.

                  1. avatar

                    They flew for 8 weeks straight? Every day? WOW I had no idea. To be honest, as I have to listen to the aircraft noise every day, I pay very little attention to the minor noise in Coupeville.

                    “I’d like to meet you on an even playing field, but I don’t think most of y’all would pass muster.”

                    Am I to take that as a threat?

                    In case you are unaware we are “meeting on an even playing field”. My words against your words, I call that even. But you want what? You want to take it one step further? To do what? Try and beat some sense into my head? Good luck Robert. I am not a violent person but more than capable of defending myself. I much rather prefer using words to get my points across not threats of violence…

                    Come on Robert, get a grip. You have made a mistake in knowingly purchasing a home in a noise zone and now you want to correct that mistake right? Have you thought of moving? That really is the simple answer here if you are that bothered by the the noise.

                    1. avatar

                      Physical violence? No…not what I meant. That’s just silly.

  10. avatar

    Many false statements in the newspaper “stuffer” written by the wealthy Ken Pickard. I don’t object to his wealth. I object to using his wealth to facilitate public money being spent to create this weird little mecca called Ebeys’ Forever … so he can live in his own little paradise on our dimes.

    Reality sucks, Mr. Pickard. Too bad you don’t live in the same world as the rest of us peons.

    1. avatar

      Thanks Mike, hope to see you in one week.

      1730 Hours, Coupeville Rec Hall, Wednesday the 19th

  11. avatar

    So who’s coming to the big confrontation Wednesday evening?

    1. avatar

      See you there.

  12. avatar

    It is important to remember that this is an op/ed and does not comply with any actual reporting news. That said name calling without knowing any facts does not bode this site any good because you continue to repeat propaganda and trying to convince yourself that the propaganda is more factual than the facts.
    There was no name calling at the meeting and all citizens have the same right as the nay sayers regarding the impact these Growlers have on their daily lives. Please remember who pays for OUR Nacy… It’s ALL citizens.

  13. avatar

    Do you have a specific example of the “propaganda” that you speak of?

    Is there something that you feel is not factual in the article?

    If so, maybe you should tell us what was stated that was not factual or based on propaganda and possibly what was not “complied” with?

    The facts are quite clear in regards to the OLF, it is has been well known for years that there are noise issues associated with the NOLF and the disclosure agreements really do speak for themselves. It is also quite clear that our County and County Commissioners have allowed encroachment to happen around the NOLF. The Crocket Barn is a stellar example of this encroachment, the permit was turned down by the planning department, the appeal was rejected by the hearing examiner and then these 2 decisions were overruled by the Couonty Commissioners granting the permit for the event center that is directly in the noise zone.

    Is this the type of “propaganda” that you speak of? Is the the lack of facts that you speak of? Or do you just disagree with those facts?

    The only “propaganda” that many of us see is coming from the supporters of removing the NOLF.

    1. avatar

      Second.

      It’s gotten out of hand.

      I told my friend Justin Burnett today it’s time the US Navy held a Navy forum. Preferably just the facts, not the ignorance bordering on lunacy of options presented last night by the leftist activist mediator: http://youtu.be/XskyrzowJEQ

      I encourage anybody who thinks I gave the wrong answer to see what happens when a caucus of individuals forms to oppose a vital USN training facility: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMN7G4e16HTZqfLZpSFirGVLgHR02dKBf

      If you don’t want to listen to all the videos and I can only give one, here you go: http://youtu.be/XPPg2HFqXY8 – most of that crowd has turned on the OLF as a whole.

      If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it for human nature is human nature. The late 1980s outbursts against the OLF snowballed into testimony at a 1991 BRAC to close NAS Whidbey Island. I have the news articles to prove it.

      OFF HOT

      1. avatar

        I am going to try and make it to the local library tomorrow. They have all the old copies of the Whidbey News Times on microfiche and I will see what I can find out on the “great turkey buy out”. That was about the Navy buying out all the local turkey farmers in the 60′s when the A-6 first came here. A lot of the same families are claiming damages today…

        1. avatar

          Cool. I’m thinking of doing some WN-T archival research of my own on the events that led up to the BRAC Crisis of 1991.

  14. avatar

    Well. Conrad and Price Johnson’s forum that was well publicized thru out Whidbey Island and finally, now it’s history. Like most local gov planning and execution of actions this one too was seriously flawed
    Many people showed up to share in the increase, “… dialogue we can come together to reduce the negative impacts of base operations on our community.”
    BUT only those special interest groups living in a specific ZIP code area were permitted to attend; all others were banned and had to listen to the touted “By increasing the dialogue we can come together to reduce the negative impacts of base operations on our community.” thru open windows etc
    Sorry Commissioner Price-Johnson, that performance did NOT buy you any re election votes to salvage your dismal political career; you have exceeded your zenith in mediocrity

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